As a parent and grandparent of 4 college graduates (3 with graduate degrees) your statement: "Seventh-day Adventist higher education in North America as we now know it is over," is only saying what many of us have thought for some time. It is far too expensive, and all of the talk about "sacrifice" does not change facts that only the very affluent parent can afford SDA college education for her children.

If we believe, and say, that the home influence is the most important, why the necessity of having SDA colleges? By the age of maturity, our children are able to make their own decisions and should be taught to do so at an earlier age, not until when sent away to college.

Fortunately, I live in the state of California which is praised for the excellence of its public colleges and universities and there is one in very close proximity wherever one lives; either the Community colleges, the CalState, or UC. I see absolutely no reason for a young person not to attend one of these schools, by living at home and avoid those expenses, and be guaranteed a world-class education, if he truly wants one.

Religious indoctrination should be limited to those desiring to become SDA pastors or theologians; although the majority of persons with terminal degrees in those fields can find superior schools that offer a more thorough education and are continuing to do so.
The immersion in SDA history and background may be of benefit to those who will teach that to the fewer students who are intersted, but Christianity in isolation is more and more an idea of the past. The entire study of Christianity is not limited to any particular denomination. The study of Adventism, especially in isolation without comparable studies in all world religions, is still too parochial for our postmodern world.

State legislators have no idea of the value of affordable education. State tutition is rising at a pace only about five years behind private institutions. The life time tax value of a college graduate is the best investment a state can make. For example, the state of Georgia invested 2.5 million dollars as its share in building a School of Dentistry at the Medical College of Georgia. The Federal Government invested 4.4 milllion. In the 20 years it took to retire the bonds we graduated 1000 dentists and 240 post-doctural students over 90% of which remained in Georgia. The State Income Tax on 100,000 dollars is about 1,600 dollars per year. If only 50% of the graduates report a taxable income of $100,000. The state of Georgia receives more than $800,000. per year in taxes from dental graduates alone.

At one time, the Church could consider a comparable return in tithe and offerings from its graduates. Certainly, Loma Linda University School of Dentistry alumni have been more than generous in gifts to "their" school.

Someone should do a study on why LLU Dental Graduates continue to be strongly committed to their school. Tom

With a guaranteed professional income far above the norm, the dental and medical graduates from LLU can afford to be generous in their support.

Initially, the graduates from the union colleges often went into denominational employment as ministers, teachers, and less well-paid careers, so it should not be surprising at all that their financial support could not equal that of the health professional university.

Maybe it would be better to compare those union colleges with Andrews University that gives terminal degrees? Don't the majority go into the teaching or pastoral professions? Compare their incomes.

Elaine

Good point.

Yet the church does benifit from those who go into the ministry and teaching. Not in tithe and offerings but in service rendered. I left Marquette University at 25 thousand a year to teach at Loma Linda at 7000 thousand a year. But now we see hospital administrators of SDA hospitals making in the high six figure incomes--with less no more than a masters level education-- go figure! Tom

If Tom and Elaine don't mind me interjecting, as a PUC grad and former part-time teacher and a current grad student at SFSU, I do have some thoughts.

-- Dave is absolutely right that we're in a crisis in Adventist higher education. However, the spiraling costs aren't limited to parochial schools in the least. This is a problem throughout higher education. Tuition dependent schools are facing some tough choices and the need to innovate (hence PUC's eco-village proposal).

-- Elaine, when you say that "religious indoctrination should be limited to those desiring to become SDA pastors or theologians", you grossly over-simplify what a four-year resident college experience is about. I am hardly someone who went looking for (or got) "religious indoctrination," but I wouldn't trade my time at PUC for smaller student loans. This is where I came into my own, where I got to explore ideas for the first time, where I made lifelong friends. Much of my education happened outside of the classroom. I've no doubt you can get an excellent chemistry or English class in state schools (I'm enjoying several right now), but for the formative years of my college experience, it's about so much more than that, and nothing compares to the relationships formed at an institution like PUC.

--One of the biggest issues needing to be faced is actually Adventist elementary and high school education where there aren't loans, grants, and scholarships readily available. The crisis in higher ed is just the last domino of a system that's long been in trouble.

I left Cathy Small's presentation in Australia more convinced than ever that there must be a HUGE HUNGER among thousands of young people for earning an undergraduate degree at a small, excellent and affordable liberal arts college. That it would be part of the SDA community is a plus for me, though I can understand why this might not be the case for others. But as Elaine says, Adventist colleges have become too expensive for many families with limited financial resources. This is a big problem!

Thanks Daneen!

That SDA primary and elementary schools face the same challenges is a good point.

I'm with you on a getting an undergraduate degree on an SDA campus.

If I were to develop this at greater length, I would go back to Ricahrd Rice's book on church membership as a matter of believing, behaving and belonging and make the case that Christian colleges enhance all three.

One of the ironies I've discovered over the years is that SDA young people who do not study on Adventist campuses are often more traditional in ways that I do not find helpful. This might be because they are not as much in touch with the changes our church, like all denominations, is always making.

Thanks!

Dave

Daneen, it is true that the relationships formed at college are inestimable. That is one of the main reasons that parents sent their children to SDA colleges: to find their mates!

However, realizing that lifelong friends are made at college, greatly minimizes the impact and friendships that one can make on the "world" if they are to be "light to the world." That leaves the work place to begin making new friends and more difficult also in networking as one needs all sorts of friends all their adult life, not just their SDA friends.

While the issue of economics is huge, I also believe there has been a shift in attitude about what parents expect of their children's education and futures that affects education. My parent's generation believed that no matter what sacrifice or cost, SDA education was superior in all ways; instilling SDA values was more important than anything else, and could most effectively be instilled by sending children to SDA schools. They believed salvation was what mattered, and a side-benefit would then be to work for the church. Yes, part of that meant finding a mate of the same faith, to procreate and continue the cycle of salvation. My generation and those who are sending their children to college now, however, seem to have the attitude that the purpose of SDA education is the same as any other education--to eventually lead to a job for financial security. If the same goal can be met outside of an SDA school for much cheaper, why bother with SDA education? Parents and students don't seem to now feel that they need an SDA education to instill those same values. I teach at one of our SDA colleges and it's interesting to see how even in the last 15 years, student attitudes have changed.

Maria

Thanks for this and for your review!

I also feel the trend toward a consumerist view of education: "I pay you to help me get a great job and that's all!"

I gather from my colleagues who teach on other private or public campuses that this is not unique to SDA colleges and universities.

It may be another instance of our comprehensive culture of consumerism in which there is a strong temptation to measure the worth of anything exclusively in dollars and cents. Young people did not create this culture. We did.

How can our students avoid feeling financial pressure when we saddle them with so much debt?

Borrowing to get through graduate or professional school makes sense to me. But having students do much of this at the undergraduate level doesn't.

Thanks!

Dave

David, I couldn't agree more.

Student debt is a pretty serious ball and chain for young Adventist scholars. Unfortunately, the topic touches on issues of class, money, intelligence, personal industry which makes it hard for my generation to speak up without, at least unspoken social stigma: anyone who "complains" clearly wasn't smart, poor, or hardworking enough to qualify for scholarships. Of course, after closer inspection, the categories become meaningless. the biggest reasons my generations is the generation of debt, we were born after the boomers.

"The number of students who graduate with over $25,000 in loan debt has tripled since the early 1990s."

Skeptics need to realize that there is a massive industry behind this marketing to students. Any questions? Google "New York Times student loan" and read the history of corruption.

Moving from problems to solutions, I wonder, would these two ideas help?

1. That the church get ahead of the ball on the emerging higher education trend, that both Yale and Harvard are giving students whose parents

By eliminating loans, Harvard, Princeton, Haverford College, the University of Pennsylvania and other schools are sending the right message about the need to reduce debt, said David Hawkins, director of public policy and research for the National Association for College Admission Counseling.

I believe that Stanford is also doing this.

You want to talk about evangelism and getting the word out about the church and improve school recruitment? The NAD should take most of the money that it would spend for the next four years on traditional evangelism and create a no-loan fund for Adventist students.

2. Create a super-endowment for Adventist education. Rather than the measly millions spread between schools, we should combine it into one much more "interesting" endowment. I'll let actual economists figure out fair methods for withdrawal and disbursement, but like the Ivy-smart move to use their money to help their graduates, Adventist schools might start seeing a faster return on the money that they already invest.

This will also help us keep our small liberal arts campuses while also moving more toward the multiversity (University of California) model. What might come of thinking about our schools as boutique campuses in the University of Adventism system?

Moving from form to content, I recently read this great Times blog postrecent by Stanley Fish, Will the Humanities Save Us?

I think that it gets right at the core reason for learning, and we Adventists best teach to that good.

Mr. Larson rightly touches on the theme of community. Building community on a college campus is crucial for creating an environment of shared values. And, as Daneen points out, the undergraduate years are often more about out-of-class experiences than in-class learning. Meaningful community is obviously much easier to build on a liberal arts campus than in a 20,000 student university.

A major challenge facing modern Adventist colleges, beyond the practical reality of finances, is identity. As Maria Rankin-Brown points out, an SDA education is now no longer seen by most families as critical. What once was the glue that held an SDA college community together–their belief in the peculiar calling of the church–is coming apart. Without this belief, why go to an SDA school when there are cheaper and academically better alternatives? SDA colleges need to rebuild their communal identities. The diversity of schools in the Adventist system is a strength that should be exploited. What makes each school unique? What special atmosphere/culture does each school have? What common passion do the students share? At the moment, there is no easy way for a high school student to discover which Adventist college community they would best be a part of. Adventism is not a homogenous community (we're better for it) and our colleges reflect that.

I can envision a group of schools, perhaps under a "University of Adventism" system like Alex proposes, where each college is given the autonomy to create its unique community. There could be technical oriented schools for those seeking a practical education, a rigorous liberal arts college, medical and nursing schools, etc. All part of the church, each fulfilling their unique strengths.

Alex, I also enjoyed Stanley Fish's article in the NY Times and printed it out, together with many of most cogent commments.

The face of education has radically changed since the concept of Adventist colleges began. They were established in the unions when travel was hard and difficult, enabling students to be closer to their homes.

The church of LDS,with approximately the same membership as Adventist, has only one university it operates, and is able to offer much more diversity in its courses because of the size of its faculty and student body.

The much smaller SDA colleges are more limited in their ability to offer a variety of majors and a few (Walla Walla) offer such majors as engineering--which means that students desiring SDA training in that area would require travel across the continent. The question: why would a student desiring the best training in physics, math, engineering, chemistry, psychology, or a host of other areas, choose an SDA college? If a serious students wants the best training offered, the priority should be based on that, not the religio-social atmosphere.

The ideal seem to be, for many young people who are actually not ready for college (but it is their parents' choice), that two years' mandatory government service of some kind be required that would also offer a college scholarship in return. That would give the "ivory tower" student the opportunity to make a much better decision of his future education. The experience of the GI Bill following WW II has been called the greatest investment of this country's future by creating a college education for the masses, something never before available for the majority. It is something that should be revived.

I find all of these comments pertinent and helpful.

That many young people across the nation are completing their undergraduate degrees owing $25,000.00 or more in adjustable rate loans from private lenders is wholly unacceptable.

That some may be reluctant to say this for fear of being thought "poor" or "stupid" compounds the probelm. Why aren't the students protesting? my Baby Boomer soul wonders.

We need both short term and long term solutions and several good ones have been proposed.

But sooner or later some SDA college or university will take the educated risk, feeling that it has nothing to lose, of drastically reducing its tuition and fees in hopes that a big boost in enrollment will more than make up the shortfall.

Somebody can figure out how many more students it would take to finance specific reductions.

Doing this would be more possible for campuses that have the resources to serve more students than they are.

In any case, tune-ups aren't enough. We need a major overhaul.

"Somebody can figure out how many more students it would take to finance specific reductions."

This also would demand a reduction in faculty. However, what about tenure (do SDA teachers get it?) and what is the obligation of the church to terminate them without pay? Can't do one without the other.

Elaine--your note on the GI bill following WWII made me think of an NPR story of the day I heard recently about how that impact is slipping. This piece made me realize how hugely influential the GI bill was and how it essentially created the middle class we know today (talk about big government spending!). It got a massive return on its investment though--all those new college graduates got better paying jobs and paid much higher taxes.

Here's the story:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=14715263

Also, I agree very much that lasting friendships outside of Adventism are important--I know how hard it is to find those soul-deep friendships past a certain age and shared experience. I'm not saying that the small school residential college experience has to be Adventist, although I should confess that I did meet my husband at PUC ; )

I keep agreeing!

The short and brutal answer about tenure is that in all collges and universities of which I have knowledge tenure can end when an institution formally declares that it is facing financially insolvency and must restructure.

My hope that we would not need to reduce faculty is based on the hunch that on some campuses we have underutilized resources--both physical and human. A class with fifteen rather than thirty students might be an example. Such inefficiencies are very costly.

How much we can gain in any specific case by becoming more efficient is something I do not know.

BUT EVEN IF IT RESCUES A COLLEGE OR UNIVERSITY, LOADING UNDERGRADUATES WITH MORE AND MORE CRUSHING DEBT IS NOT RIGHT, I BELIEVE.

Thanks!

Dave

Dave is correct.

Tenure is for the life of the program, school, or institution: not the life of the faculty member. However, closure of a program must be based upon unequivocal evidence, supported by Board Action and consistent with Accreditation Standards. It is not considered equitable to close a program and dismiss a tenured faculty merely because of tangential views of a particular faculty member. There most be tangible evidence of incompetence, moral turpitude, or disruptive behavior. Generally institutions tend to negotiate a "buy out" or equitable transfer. However, tenure does not apply to administrative offices.

For example, when President Reagan cut the Great Society funding of dental schools five dental schools closed their doors. Key faculty were eagerly recruited by viable dental schools and students in good standing enjoyed competitive recruitment.

Tom

I attended AU for 2 years (20 years ago)--I knew after my first year I couldn't really afford it, but I moved off campus, scrimped and saved, and went through the second year (I really loved AU, though I hated SW MI). Then I transferred to an in-state university in my home state where I paid less per YEAR than one SEMESTER in academy.

However, one thing I have observed is that graduating from a state university and then going into SDA employment (in my case, as a teacher) leads to suspicion and distrust. Why didn't you go to an SDA school? Don't you support SDA beliefs? Plus the fact that, because I was lacking required SDA classes (Spirit of Prophecy among them), I got paid less than standard starting rate until I remedied that situation.

I think in many situations, it is important to have an SDA education. However, I do not think an SDA education is worth the staggering debt load.

The comment was made about the church schools and academies being so expensive--yes, and they will only become more so as churches pull out their support of the local schools and more of the burden is placed on the individual parents.

M

M makes a good observation. Unions and conferences are holding steady and even reducing the dollar amount they contribute per student to their colleges. Inflation makes it so really the church is much less involved now than it was before.

The idea that there should be a Adventist University consortium like the UC system presumes that there is or can possibly be central planning within the Adventist school system.

This super endowment will happen when someone ponies up the dough. Who will that be? Unions? Not likely. All signs seem to point to the church taking less responsibility and ownership not more.

Inter-institutional cooperation and a UC style system are totally different things. It's one thing for presidents to meet and plan but another thing entirely for them to pool resources, debts, programs, faculty and governance.

I wonder if that is possible realistically. Such a proposal would require divisions, unions and conferences to not only dictate this radical change to colleges but also back it up with the same support they've been steadily withdrawing.

I humbly suggest that the best course would be for the level of autonomy and union support to correspond better so that schools receiving little or no support could have independent boards.

Such a move would align board politics with practical realities making universities responsible for their own success or failure. As it stands union officials are far too ready to interfere politically (Walla Walla is a great example), far more than their manifest fiscal support justifies.

I'd say we agree there is an imbalance between governance and support. Pichot and Carpenter suggest that governance and support should be more centralized. I don't think that is possible. I think the more likely positive change would be to change the governance of schools to match the support received. To decentralize our higher education system and grant our colleges and universities more autonomy and responsibility for their own failure and success.

Such a change would be far greater than the status quo with schools unable to, on their own, act for their own interests without outside interference. Or, if the folks back east cared so much about their institutions why don't they give money to CUC with the same enthusiasm that they use to block CUC's moves to gain economic stability?

In closing I'd like to point out that the last effort to create centrally planned Adventist education goes by the acronym IBMTE. In my honest opinion many of the same reasons used to argue against that centralization carry over and apply to the proposal for this UC style system.

I think the original question was:"Why College Students act as they do and what can we do about it?" The question has turned to what Union Conferences should do about funding.

Cost is just one part of the puzzle. In Europe, the church funded higher education for its own ends. For the first 150 years American higher education was largely church supported.

With Thomas Jefferson, public support for higher education began to compete with the church-related higher education.

With the passage of the Land-Grant legislation, public support for education out-grew private institutions. Thus, the private schools turned to elitism. Seventh-day Adventist colleges and universities hang in the middle--an egalitarian mission with an elitist appetite. Now with accredited junior and senior colleges within driving distance for over 90% of SDA young people and little evidence that SDA college life is a spiritual haven--what's the point? Why even Neal Wilson is on the Board of Trustees of a privately funded foundation dedicated to home schooling! Moreover, Herbie Douglas et al attempted to build a cocoon campus outside of denominational control--a half way house to the "time of trouble." I am 90% through funding my grandchildren through college. I am sure they are at home every night. It is the safest of both worlds" academically and moral certitude. Try it you may like it! Tom

I do not believe that the cost of Adventist Higher Education is out of line with the market. I observe that the quality and cost of education is competitive with other private institutions (my sample is Walla Walla University). However private higher education has a difficult time competing with community education in foundation curriculum such as mathematics, language, writing, literature etc. Private education customers understand the benefits of the small private institution. However these educational buyers have a difficult time justifying the private cost for the basics, delaying entry into private institutions by getting through the basics in community colleges. This puts an extra load on private institutions that use the basics as "cash cows" to fund the delivery of more specialized and costly education. This also provides motivation for bigger institutions to deny the transfer of valid credits from community education (my data here is old - does this still happen?). The result is community students never making the transition to private education because of the erected barriers and the distractions of initially going elsewhere. Perhaps part of the answer lies in creating a two-tiered education cost within private universities. Get the students in the door by discounting the basics, then move the costs up as the education becomes more specialized.

I, too, have thought of deeply discounting the cost of the first two years of college and leaving tution and fees higher for the second. Do we need more A.A. programs?

More generally, it seems that we are now discussing the appropriate balance between centralization and decentralization among SDA colleges and universities in North America.

I think that this pertinent to the original subject because we are all trying to think of ways to make study at a small, excellent, Christian campus affordable to those who want it as a way of making higher education less alienating.

Earlier I expressed support for the decentralization approach, in effect letting each campus sink or swim in its own. But an experienced Adventist educational administer who participates in our Friday morning breakfasts and discussions helped me think of a wider range of possibilites. Here are some that now come to my mind.

1. Each campus is wholly independent of the others, their leaders not even talking to each other.

2. The leaders of the colleges and universities get together to discuss common interests and issues and nothing more.

3. In addition to 2, they administer certain programs or experiences something like "joint ventures." I think this sort of thing now happens with overseas study and tours.

4. In addition to 2 & 3, the schools share some resources "behind the scenes" with no outward change. All the computer needs of school administrations could be met at one location, for example.

5. In addition to 2, 3 & 4, make georgraphically dispersed campuses the regional colleges of a one institution without losing its longstanding idenity, visibility and support. There could be a Happy Union College of Three Angels University in New Park, Montivannia, for example.

6. The various campuses could lose their historic names and identities and become, for example. Three Angels University at New Park

7. The financially impossible campuses could close, their assets sold and used for other things, perhaps for scholarships to the remaining surviving campuses.

8. Create one Three Angels University with one campus, along the lines of Brigham Young University.

Watching the various configurations of Adventist health care administration in North America over the years convinces me that getting the right mix of centralization and decentralization is not easy.

There are advantages in centralization; however, one must also consider the decrease in local support and the decline in frugality as each local entity lets "headquarters pay for it."

Specialists in both educational and health care administration have considered these matters for decades. Perhaps some of them might be able to tell us what they think.

Wow!

I've just returned from a social occasion in which I had a conversation with a professor at one of the very large nearby research universities.

I told him that I had read Cathy Small's book and found it interesting. He said that he had heard of it.

Me: "The students she met seemed to feel lonely, isolated and perhaps even alienated.

He: "I know. They need to grow up!"

Me: "Pardon me?"

He: "They need to grow up."

Me: In what ways do they need to grow up."

He: "They think we should care about them like their parents do."

Me: "Professors shouldn't care about their students?"

He: "In real life no one is going to care about them and they need to get used to it."

Me: "As you see it, then, the university is a microcosim of life in the real world where they are going to be pretty much on their own."

He: "Right."

Me: "I think there might be a need for small, excellent liberal arts colleges."

He: "To postpone the time when they have to face the real world?"

Me: "I think that perhaps many might benefit from studying where there is a greater sense of community and where they can get better acquainted with their teachers?"

He: "Do you really think we should get that involved in teaching?"

Me: "At the undergraduate level, I think so. Then they can go to the big research universities for graduate or professional school."

He: "That's resource intensive."

Me: "I guess it is."

He: "Students complain when they don't get grades in my classes even though they have not done the work?"

Me: "I thought your admissions criteria assured you only the best students."

He: "Maybe so, but many are lazy.

Me: "I'm surprised."

He: "What's it like in the Adventist schools?"

Me: "We give almost everybody a chance, sort of like junior colleges."

He: "Really? I thought you had good students; that's been my experience with the ones from [he named a SDA campus.]

Me: "Many come from modest financial and academic backgrounds."

He: "Are all your Freshmen like that?"

Me: "No, we have a mix."

He: "So do we. One third of them shouldn't even be with us. Another third does OK. About one third do well."

Me: "I think we're pretty good at giving lots of our Freshmen a boost so that when they are seniors they are in pretty good shape. That's why I see a place for small liberal arts colleges."

He: "I still think they need to grow up."

I'm not saying that this professor is typical or representative. But he did surprise me.

A bit late to the discussion, but just want to add that while expensive, I think Adventist education is affordable. I say that from the experience of encouraging and mentoring 2 kids from our church who otherwise probably wouldn't have gone to college at all, to attend our local union college. While tuition is less than the west coast SDA schools, so is the minimum wage.

Both kids are public high school graduates who came from lower income families with no college education in their immediate families. One hadn't even seriously considered college until I met with him several times; he figured the Navy was his best route to a career. I convinced him he could do it. SAT scores for both were on the low side (900-1000, old scale). Once these kids went to our college, they found it challenging, but thanks to the small size and teacher involvement, they were able to get grounded after a semester or two. Both will be graduating this May, and have promising futures.

What about finances? The oft-cited $100K+ cost is deceptive since many kids receive help. In this case, despite the modest SAT scores, these kids--who had B to B+ averages in H.S. (thanks to grade inflation, perhaps?)--got middle-of-the road scholarships from the college. An additional $1000/yr dorm scholarship was theirs since they were campus-resident students. They got >$4K in Pell grants. They got >$3K in state grants. One got a scholarship for Hispanic students from the union. We as a church helped them out with small scholarships which applied to a matching grant program from the college. They worked too, but not inordinately so--the number of hours were reasonable (10-15/wk) and one of them found a job that allowed a lot of study time on the job, so could work more. They both ended up eventually in jobs that were closely aligned with their career aspirations, so received valuable experience.

When all this was done, then there were loans. I estimate each will have about $20,000 in loans when finished. Sounds like a lot, but not for a government subsidized loan. They should have no trouble paying that off with their higher college degree enabled incomes. To put things in perspective, one of these kids had bought a car with a $15K loan his last year of high school. I told him that if he returned the car and borrowed instead for college, when he was done he'd have about the same amount of debt, but would have invested in himself instead of in something that by that time would be worth only a fraction of what he'd paid for it. He refused the advice at first, but after a few months of insurance payments, loan payments, etc., he did it and never looked back. Soon he'll be able to buy a nice car every year if that is his priority (I don't think it is).

These were kids near the bottom. Kids at the top, like from my family, get no government aid. Many of them come from college-educated families, though, and are better prepared for college and earn higher merit scholarship. In any case, if one comes from such a family, an SDA college is still a bargain compared to other similar quality private universities. And, as we have experienced with our own kids, the personal attention is very helpful, especially at times of personal crisis (which many college kids experience regardless of family background).

There are families between these two extremes who probably get the worst end of the deal. I think more should be done to help them. The government and universities need to make sure affordability is balanced across the spectrum. But nevertheless, I think it is affordable to those willing to make some sacrifices.

One final comment. College education is an investment. If one doesn't finish, then no matter how inexpensive the university, it was not a good financial investment (at least if a degree is required for your career). There was one other kid affiliated with our church that I tried to help. He was very interested in attending the SDA college, but in the end was enticed by the lower "list" price of a state university. I tried to convince him he could afford the SDA school, but he liked the public university and the recruiting endorsements. He was probably the brightest of the 3 in many ways, and had a scholarship offer from the state university. Well, he went, got lost in the crowd, and blew out after one semester.

I strongly believe SDA colleges are an excellent value, especially for less-well-prepared students, but also for well-prepared students. I also think they are affordable if people do the research.

As Associate Dean for Academic Affairs for 17 years and Vice President for Academic Affairs for 8 years and Acting Vice Chancellor for Health Affairs for one year, I can safely say that the horror stories on both sides: Teacher/Student and Student/Teacher are too numerous to be of any predictive value.

Never-the-less here is a good one! One of our faculty, recently retired from the Army Dental Corp recommended a female student be dismissed because she was emotionally unstable and incapable of managing medical/dental crisis.

I inquired as to the basis of his conclusion. He said, that when she was corrected in the lab or clinic she would occasionally break into tears. I said, that certainly was adequate cause If we would also dismiss all the male students who swore under their breath, or slammed the door, or kicked the wastebasket. Certainly those criteria should also hold true for mature faculty who slammed down the phone or spun their tires on the way out the parking lot at night.

He said, maybe we should give her a little more time to mature. I said, I think so too. I added, I think that might happen if the faculty would be more of a mentor than traffic cop Tom

P.S. She graduated in the top 20% of her class.

Anonymous and Tom
These are wonderful reports! Thank you. They are different in many ways; however, they share a common thread. This is that these students were fortunate to have teachers and campus administrators who took a personal interest in them, thereby enabling them to acheive much more than anyone anticipated. Great!

I had a meal earlier this week with two relatively recent graduates of a small Christian liberal arts college. One has completed an advanced degree at a major research university and the other is working toward one on such a campus.

Their message was two-fold. On the one hand, even for undergraduates, study at major research universities is not always as bad as I have thought because efforts are made with small groups and so forth to make large classes less stressful.

On the other hand, small Christian liberal arts colleges are not always as good as I have thought because those who teach there frequently do not show much interest in their students.

They felt that some of the small schools are not taking full advantage of their opportunities. It is questionable whether they are worth the extra money, they said.

Thanks!

Dave

One problem arises when a newly minted PhD enters academia to find that he/she is assigned to a mandatory introductory course when their aim was to win the Nobel Prize within five years. They do not willingly accept the challenge to
enlighten young minds. The students feel the resentment and respond accordingly. Passive Aggression is the response to the lack of empathy in the classroom, laboratory, or on the drill field.

One year I was assigned to teach first year dental hygiene students oral anatomy. I am not an anatomist. The dental hygiene students and dental students used the same lounge and rode the same elevators. So I told these fresh out of high school young ladies: these are the things you must know. However, these addition items are the things so obscure even the dental students are not taught them. So here is what you do. Every time you get on an elevator with some dental students, start talking about these obscure features of the oral cavity. It will drive them nuts! Boy did I ever have enthusiastic students in oral anatomy plus, my students scored in the top quintile on the National Board in Anatomy. Tom

On January 8 of this year, Daneen Akers wrote:

"One of the biggest issues needing to be faced is actually Adventist elementary and high school education where there aren't loans, grants, and scholarships readily available. The crisis in higher ed is just the last domino of a system that's long been in trouble."

But there's some bad news!

This morning I received word from Erik Larson that some SDA elementary, middle and seconardy schools are arranging for loans for their students. I went to the web site for the school nearest to me and discovered that it has developed a working relationship of some sort with Wachovia. Other companies may also be involved.

So, here are the numbers: The total cost of going to this school from K-12 is 67,500.00 per student. I think this amounts to $5,192.31 for each of the 13 years. Payments each month of the year makes each one $432.69.

Let's round this out to an even 500.00 per month per student to have some money for incidental expenses and suppose that a family has two children going to school, making the total $1,000.00 per month.

My initial impression is that a family with a total monthly income of at least 6,000 might be able to handle this.

The questions are this: How many of our people have a total income of at least $72,000.00 per year? This would be $6,000 per month, 1500 per week, 300 per day and $37.50 per hour.

If both parents together can earn a total of 40.00 per hour, I think they can make it.

But what if the family earns less than, say, $72,000.00 per year.

The bad news is that it can borrow what they still need, up to 100% of their educational costs if their credit is good enough.

I think this is bad news for at least two reasons. One is that shifting the burden from the congregation and school to the parents this way allows everybody to ignore the looming crisis. I think it is also bad news because it saddles young people or their parents with thousands of dollars of debt before they have even one day in college or on the job.

Parents in college or professional school who will have a sizble incomes once they graduate might be well served by such loans. Also, if inflation heats up and they are allowed to do so, financially shrewed people make take out these loans and pay them back in cheaper dollars. The others may sink.

What's the point? The rest of us need to step up and make Christian elementary, middle and secondary school education in a SDA setting affordable for those whose parents are just beginnng their climb up the economic ladder.

Historically our congregations have had worthy student funds for this purpose above and beyond their congregational subsidies to the school. This is a good thing and it should continue.

One other consideration is that many SDA professional people today have better than average incomes partly because the Adventist educational system helped them out along the way. I think they might have fun helping others to enjoy econimic success too.

LOANS FOR STUDENTS IN ELEMENTARY AND SECONDARY SCHOOL ARE NOT THE BEST ANSWER. WE CAN DO BETTER!

Thanks!

Dave

Somehow I missed this discussion when it started, and now I don't know where to start.

This touches on two separate issues which are central concerns of mine.

As a teacher and administrator for more than a decade in SDA Elementary schools, I can say that our primary and secondary schools have not been affordable for a long time.

In 1979, I knew a family with 1 girl at Andrews, another at Broadview Academy (just recently closed), another in 9th grade (which I taught, and cost more than 1-8), and one son in 7th grade. Since I was attending AU in the summers myself at that time to finish my MA, I knew what the tuition was for all those schools. That family had approximately $17,500 in tuition alone. According to the government website (http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl), thats more than $51,000 today.

That's not affordable.

But affordability is almost no longer an issue. When I was in Academy in Iowa (it's now closed, too), there were 14 or so church schools in the state. Today there are 3.

And this is where my other deep concern kicks in. Away from large Adventist centers, and a few large cities, there are no young adults to speak of. A recent study found the median age of SDA's in NA, including all children who attend Sabbath school, is 58! And the same study found that more than 1000 churches have no teenagers or children.

Because the few young people remaining flow into the colleges and universities, the shortage is not fully apparent there.

Anyway, the lack of young people to be college students may render the rest of the discussion moot.

Ed

Cost is only one part of the problem. The other is value received. In moving to Augusta, Ga. in 1966 I transfered my children from the LLU church school to the Augusta Church School. The school was housed in an old mansion that had a maids quarters in the basement. The kitchen was still "Operable". The teacher would have the children bring baking potatoes to school for lunch. At about 11 in the morning the teacher would asked one of the older students to go down to the basement and light the gas oven. One day my son had the task. He came back up and said: I smell gas in the basement. The teacher said: That's o.k. I know it is only a small leak. Just light the match before you enter the kitcken and then back-in so if there is an explosion your face won't get burned! When he got home and told his story. I said the teacher left out one important detail. If you back and and are then blown out, you can at least see where you are going! People are asked to pay for that kind of learning?
Tom

P.S. I got the gasline fixed and the next year recruited two excellent teachers from La Sierra.

Part of the problem as I see it is dorm costs. They are about a third of all school related expenses at Andrews, and though the dorm price is significantly higher than could be found by students looking for other housing arrangements, this is not allowed. I am not certain all the reasons why, but there is a feeling of control needed by the administration on the activities of the students that is the perceived reason for these regulations, and it promotes a good deal of resentment. It also generates a good deal of debt.