Great idea! I, for one, would be very interested in hearing from Adventist scholars.

From another fan of The Teaching Company who has been buying their lectures for more than 6-7 years. I have quite a library by now, and every time their catalog comes, or emails describing courses on sale, it is hard to resist and I usually have one or two waiting in line. Currently, I'm watching the DVD lectures on America and the Middle East since 1914. I have yet to be disappointed in any of their courses, and have many that you mention, Gordon. Some go back to audio tapes before the CDs became available.

What a wonderful idea for SDA professors to make tapes for those of us who would be potential customers. Keep us informed.

Marketing is definitely the key. The lectures are out there, but it takes a lot of digging to find them (e.g. Your channel doesn't show up on a search of "adventist" channels on YouTube.). There needs to be some kind of aggregating service that finds, sorts, and (if necessary) sells these lectures.

Baring that, here's some free online content from Adventist religion profs that I've found and enjoyed.

Ellen White Summit

Inspiration/Revelation Conference

Adventist Theological Society

Good Word Online

Also, the recent QoD conference can't get enough plugs. The bottom line is that everyone seems to be capable of putting and finding their favorite PhDs online, the problem is finding the wider Adventist (and beyond) audience. And that problem is likely made worse by our tendency to listen only to those whom we agree with, especially when it comes to religion and politics.

Thanks for the links, David.

We do need an aggregation and RSS feed for thoughtful Adventist content, kind of like what the old American Christian Ministries used to do with cassettes.

Great idea! I am also addicted to The Teaching Company's lectures. My husband and I are in the middle of "From Jesus to Constantine," a series of fascinating lectures about the history of early Christianity.

I've spent a fortune on the Teaching Company; have two series in my Ipod right now.

It's a good idea but the I doubt it would work with the names you mentioned. The only folks who buy that kind of stuff in the SDA church are the conservatives, and they are not going to listen to the names you have mentioned, trust me.

ACM is called what now? I remember Alan Newhart taping my dad when I was quite young. Alan started his own company which has speakers like Hyveth Williams, Jon Dydbahl, Jon Paulien and more which is interesting because you don't see much crossover from speakers on ACM and The Ambassadors Group.

Anyways, I think it would be correct to say that the teaching company idea does exist already but in fragments. San Diego Adventist Forums records their speakers and a few Adventist theologians promote their own wares online to different degrees from Alden Tompson to Jon Paulien.

The closest I get to consuming this type of media is through podcasts. I'm subscribed to In Our Time with Melvyn Bragg, The Philosophy Podcast and something called Philosophy Bites. The entire learn out loud podcast directory is quite good. I also listen to lectures on Fora.tv fairly regularly.

Podcasts are interesting and I would even say there is a generation gap between people who would even think of ACM and people who buy more music off iTunes than on CD. But if you're looking to sell these lectures well you'll find a generational gap there too I suspect.

I do think that older people are more likely to consume any sort of talking head media. Putting the videos on youtube is a good idea, a podcast or vodcast on iTunes would help reach that market too. And thinking Adventists looking for media online are perhaps likely to be found on Fora.tv and learn out loud. Those few channels would compliment whatever you end up doing well.

The reason we enjoy listening to the scholars chosen by the Learning Company is that they are unfettered by creed. They are on a quest for truth and it's always fascinating to see where it has taken them. When a scholar is circumscribed by creed, it doesn't work. Who would want to listen to a Mormon scholar lecturing about Joseph Smith, when you know that he would be fired should he stray from orthodoxy (even if the facts demanded it.) Adventist scholars can only be intellectually bold--and hence interesting--if they speak about subjects that haven't been nailed down by EGW and church creed. (There is no way Rick Rick would have been able to get away with his "openness" theology had Ellen White addressed the issue.)

So what you're proposing is creating a series of lectures about things that skirt almost all the important issues in Adventism and conservative christendom. The only people willing to take on tough issues (and risk unemployment) are people like Cliff Goldstein, who are utterly comfortable with orthodoxy, and since you already know which conclusion he is going to arrive at, you might not be willing to pay good money for it.

The age-old debate...how do we balance intellectual freedom of scholars, thinkers and academics, with church creed and orthodoxy?

Frank

Aage,

That's why those of us who are fans of The Teaching Company continue to listen: they are freed from any dogma or creed, IOW, scholarly academics, not theologians within a religious paradigm.

One can only learn if she is willing to get "out of the box" and listen and consider scholarly viewpoints, something which constrains those in the Adventist academic environment. These lectures are not intended to strengthen one's religious faith, but stretch the mind.

This is definitely something that would be of interest to me. I vaguely remember the launch of the trial balloon, but it wasn't really marketed after that. I believe I listened to a few of the lectures and I have listened to some of the QOD presentations as well. I will have to try out this teaching company. I have to live up to my username now that I have completed my formal education.

I think the point that those of us attending Sabbath schools are not all in the same 'grade' is astute. Many learned folks are turned off by religious organization by faith practices that distill traditions down to the most intellectually-inclusive and/or simplest elements, offering spiritual satiation only to initiates and not life-long student-practitioners of the Christian heritage. Such a program might be able to keep a wider range of the faithful population interested.

Additionally, a part-way academic approach to religion seems like a good way to get those critical twentysomethings engaged in their church. In the years just out of college or graduate school, many young adults experience a sense of drop-off, working jobs that may not stimulate them intellectually as well as their college experiences did. I know that in my first years out of college, I was drawn like a moth to the flame of a church that took seriously the need to apply my mental capacity in worship. I also spent considerable time with my friends recently out of college, doing our own book groups, just to keep our cognitive faculties active. If we could have done this in the context of a faith community, where the tension of scholastic grading was absent, more of my atheist friends might have stuck around for the rest of the religious experience.

Finally, any opportunity to get professors out of the ivory towers and actually having to explain and apply their material to real-life experiences is a good idea in my book!

There are probably a fair number of Adventist academics not working in Adventist institutions. They might feel more free to say what they think and thus be interesting/provocative. Doug Clark, for instance, is Executive Director of ASOR (formerly at WWC), and could do a fantastic talk on archeology. Glenn Greenwalt is another ex-WWC professor who could, I would think, do a very interesting series on Aesthetics and Spirituality (he used to have a popular class on that subject) or on the philosophy of religion generally. And then, of course, there is Ron Numbers.

Excellent idea Tim,

I thoroughly enjoyed Philosophy of Religion from Glenn. If we thought about it long enough I am sure we could come up with more names. Plus there are plenty of others within the Adventist institution that I would find interesting, some have already been mentioned.

BTW, do you play the Horn?

Michael

That's me, Mr P.

And you're right, there are plenty that could be interesting even within the bounds of denominational employment. Ernie Bursey, for instance, is someone who has a lot of profound things to say and has said them in church-affiliated venues.

Tim, my e-mail is perpetualstudent with an @ and gmail.com at the end of it.

All,

You may be interested in my Teaching Company user forum, where I review all lectures from their newest courses, and some old favorites.

http://teachingcompany.12.forumer.com

I hope you enjoy it,

Doug van Orsow

If you folks like physics, you ought get get Dr Wolfson's course on Relativity and Quantum Theory, 2nd edition. I listened to the first edition years ago, and this is even better.

And for all you evolutionist dupes (ha, ha), there's a great course called the "Origins of Life." Fascinating. I loved it, even though the whole thing, from start to finish, was based on a totally false premise; hence all that came after was wrong too but it was still great. Am going through it a second time!

Cliff

Cliff, you gotta know what you're knocking!

Academic feedom is like sex: get all you can in the dark but don't talk about it too much.

As a long-time consumer of The Teaching Company courses, my perspectives on Dr. Short's concluding question are these: While SS classes desperately need a good infusion of academic content, the SS class as the target venue for use of DVDs could be quite limiting. I find great value in the CD format, listening to many hours of lectures in my car. Also, what are the chances of getting some Adventist academics included in the The Teaching Company course offerings, rather than create our own "Adventist" teaching company? We have scholars who can hold their own in the market place of ideas and rational thought.
Raj

Worth a comment: THe latest Templeton Foundation prize worth $1.6 million was awarded to The Rev. Michael Heller, prolific Polish scientist, author and Roman Catholic priest who bridges disciplines to explore the origins of the universe.

His rector at the University in Krakow, said that he "has brought to science a sense of transcendent mystery, and to religion a view of the universe through the broadly open eyes of science."

A native of Krawow, Poland, Heller in his statement criticized adherents of intelligent design--which holds that apsects of the universe and living beings are best exsplained by a higher power--as committing a "grave theological error."

Heller has spent his life asking, and perhaps more impressive, answering questions like "Does the universe need to have a cause?" Much of his career has been dedicated to reconciling the known scientific world with the unknowable dimensions of God.

In doing so, he has argued against a "God of the gaps" strategy for relating science and religion, a view that uses God to explain what science cannot. Heller said he believed, for example, that the religious objection to teaching evolution "is one of the greatest misunderstandings" because it "introduces a contradiction or opposition between God and chance."

In a telephone interview, Heller explained his affinity for the two fields: "I always wanted to do the most important things, and what can be more important that science and religion? Science gives us knowledge, and religion gives us meaning. Both are prerequisites of the decent existence."

An uncommon view of the science vs. religion debate.

Maybe I am missing something here, but this guy, Heller, says that those who think that "aspects of the universe and living beings are best exsplained by a higher power" are committing a "grave theological error"?

I wonder what "grave theological error" he was referring to (And this guy was given an award?).

Once upon a time scientist exalted that they were able to "think God's thoughts after Him." Now they brag that they are way ahead of that God thing. They call it learning. Seems as though "I don"t know!" or "I'll get back to you on that are way out of style." Just add on a few million years and a dozen or more DNA's and we are home free. Tom

Elaine

Thank you VERY MUCH for informing us of the 2008 Templeton Prize winner!

I visited the site and am so impressed by this Christian's personal story and his academic accomplishments.

You made my Sabbath and I am grateful!

I am refraining from saying more about this here because I think we should start a new thread about Michael Heller and his work so that they get the attention and comments they deserve.

I just emailed Alex to see if he can blog it. If he can't, I would like to get a conversation started from my column.

One way or the other, we need to put this on the agenda.

Thanks!

Dave

Gordon: As usual you are "stirring up the pot" and from the varied and interesting responses, the "porridage" is smelling more and more appetizing.
Just the many interesting responses suggests you have a great kernel idea and if you can put it on the drawing board and integrated and experiment with some of the suggestions, something intriguing and stimulating should come from it.
While reading the responses it occurred to me there is a group already to act as a "board" of advisors. Having worked for a non profit facility with a Board of 30 for 25 years...It would be interesting to see how many independent minds wishing to "set thing straight" could manage to "hang together" before they "hang separately"...but from such togetherness in principle would/might/ and hopefully will come much common good for the common or uncommon man/woman. Blessings

The primarly question is shall the SDA Teaching Company be within Adventism, with in Christianity, within a contemporary world view? There are three primary courses that I wish to take: The nitty gritty on Dan 8:14; The actual exegises on Rev. 14:6-; and the rational for a perfect final generation. From Scripture only of course! With all due regards for E.G.White, M.L. Andresean, and Hebbie Douglas et al.

I want to know what the earliest texts have to say and what was the on the ground situation when they said it! There is no need to defend or attack any other point of view. Just give a scholarly anaylsis of the text plus nothing. Please no quotes from the Good Old Review!

As an elective: What exactly did Paul mean about the Sabbath?
No helps from the G.C. Please. Tom

P.S. I am not a bit interested in whom Seth married.

A philosopher from Norway, Peter Wessel Zappfe, argued that humans were inherently tragic because they were born with with metaphysical appetites which the (to him, godless) universe was incapable of satisfying. I would argue that adventists (or anybody else constrained by a fundamentalistic worldview) will find themselves in the same situation if they have an open-ended commitment to truth.

If truth is what you're looking for, you will have to be willing to follow it off any idelogical reservation you may be confined to. Truth is no respecter of static, upper-case Truth.

What created modernism was the legitimization of doubt. When the Enlightenment legitimized doubt, it laid the groundwork for religious tolerance and an open-ended quest for truth. The result was an explosion of scientific knowledge. The reason you don't have many muslim scientists, philosophers, inventors is no doubt closely related to the fact that they live in a world still suffering from, what Will Durant called, "homicidal certainty" in matters of truth.

It is greatly to the credit of the Catholic Church that it harbors in its midst people such as this year's Templeton winner because churches are normally committed to creed, not the quest for truth. THAT was the heartbreak discovery that made me break off my relationship with the adventist church, ten years after I joined it.

I foolishly confused the rhetoric of truth (i.e. the creed) with the quest for truth. Churches are basically committed to worship and to self-exaltation ("my creed is better than yours, my church is bigger than yours"). The quest for truth is carried on at places such as the University of Krakow and CERN and Duke--(but also at the listening end of CDs from e.g. the Teaching Company). I think adventists with intellectual aspirations will have to come to terms with the fact that it might not be possible to come up with a unified field theory of lower and upper-case truth. (On that score, I'm with Cliff Goldstein.)

Given time, truth always expands beyond the creed, it wanders off the reservation, and that's where we shall have to catch up with it.

I've often thought that would be a great idea, so glad you are experimenting with it! Some of the popular seminary courses, for example, from Andrews could be recorded and shared with a larger audience. However, I think you have the wrong concept w/r/t Sabbath School. Would you really want to go to Sabbath School and sit and listen to a DVD or CD? Why not do that on your own at home? What I enjoy about Sabbath School is the live(ly) discussion. I suppose one could watch a DVD and then discuss, but you're still giving up 30 minutes or so to static listening, and many Sabbath Schools are too short for both listening and discussion.

If you do want to go the SS route, I'd suggest developing appropriate discussion materials, interactive websites, etc. i.e., enabling group discussion based on the material.

Maybe I'm too old generation, but I do prefer live music, discussion, classes, etc., to the "canned" variety--even though the musicians I hear may be amateur, and the teachers and preachers too. What's great about TLC is that it gets you access to the "best of the best", and you can do it in the comfort of your own home or car and on your schedule. But I wouldn't like even TLC material in Sabbath School if it displaced the interaction and community-building that takes place there.

Dear Dr.Short,
I love the idea. Essentially, your analysis matched my experience when taking a Masters of Education degree at Atlantic Union College, which is loaded with gifted, intelligent and spiritually alert professors, who are little known (or appreciated) by the general population of intellectually curious Adventist believers in my area. I would whole heartedly support the program, personally and in my poor, struggling home church. I would add that the regular adult class with its mix of minds and perspectives is also a very wholesome experience; there is no "spiritual elite".

Also, to address comments by Aage Rendalen, I would note that practically the ONLY scientists and fellow truth pilgrims in the 10th and 14th century were Muslims, who built the 'golden age' of Avicenna, al-Kindi, al-Razi, Ibn Al-Jazzar, al-Tamimi, al-Masihi, Ibn Khaldun and his ilk. It is true that Muslim civilization did lose the vision. I disagree that Adventists have also lost the vision, but agree that we are in danger of doing so. These Adventist Learning Company DVDs would be a potent step in the right direction.
George Odell

Tom,

I'm with you on understanding what the earliest text meant to the hearers then, and learning from the best of scholars with no parameters. Limiting any study of Scripture or history within the Adventist perspective, is, for me, a lost cause. Truth is found by diligent study and no limiting factors at all. That is why the best academics never allow their personal beliefs to enter into their lectures: just the facts. Adventist academics are never completely free to explore areas where no one may have gone before, much less publicly question such ideas. Adventist academic freedom is an oxymoron. History cannot hide the bodies of those it has thrown overboard.

Aage, I, too, had to leave the Adventist church when I realized there was no quest for truth, because they had already found it: locked it up, and thrown away the key. Challenge it at your peril.

Elaine

I have had a few "old men" whisper in my ear on a Wednesday night. Others have left mean notes on my screen door for me to find in the morning. What a joke on "finding and standing for the "Truth".' Tom

THERE IS NOTHING HOLY ABOUT HAVING SABBATH SCHOOL FOR NO MORE THAN ONE HOUR EACH WEEK!

The one I have been attending off and on for years goes for two hours each and every Sabbath, though some leave early.

Even a Sabbath School only 90 minutes long would have plenty of time for prelims (30 minutes), video (30 minutes) and discussion (30 minutes).

Adult Sabbath Schools all over the world are dying every week, often after long and painful illnesses.

Why not try something different? We have nothing to lose.

Again, I hasten to add that the fault, if any, does not lie with the SS Department of the GC. That group has been given an impossible task and we need to recognize their situation and be grateful for what they are accomplishing.

Nobody can write a Sabbath School lesson that will simultaneously serve the needs of the many in our church who can neither read nor write and the many who have earned college, graduate and professional school degrees.

Instead of sitting around and whinning like some powerless adolescents, those of us who are well educated should show some initiatve and turn this situation around, church-by-church in ways that are helpful in each location.

Gordon Short has long been showing this kind of initiative. He has my gratitude.

Thanks

Dave

Hi, Agee, nice to see you around. I've wondered about you from time to time . . .

I was just wondering in your quest for truth, which led you out of the SDA church, did you find something else that seems closer to the ideal (whatever that could be?)? I guess I find this fascinating because it was my quest for truth that led me TO the SDA church, and trust me--as a secular Jew from Miami Beach--it was not an easy road to Adventism, believe me!

Cliff

Of course there is nothing holy about a 2 hours Sabbath School! But I am speaking from the perspective of a small church with about 20 in attendance at SS and maybe 60 for church. It isn't Loma Linda by a long shot, with the range of Sabbath options available there. Mostly families here, so a 2 hour SS would mean 2 hours of childcare or children's SS also--want to volunteer? It is hard enough getting teachers for an hour! In this small setting, which presumably would be one more benefited by intelligent professors than Loma Linda, which already has them on site, a long SS would be difficult to achieve.

oops--that should have read "nothing holy about a 1 hour SS"!

Cliff,
Adventism to me, at age 19, was like seeing a metaphysical Ali Baba's cave being opened in front of my eyes. I had stumbled upon the magic word that opened the treasure house of the universe to me. Nothing before or later has been able to rival the magic of that moment.

Arthur Koestler wrote a fascinating book in 1951 called "The Age of Longing" (I know you'd love it--seriously!). In it he addresses the nostalgia left behind by the collapse of the great utopian political movements of the 20th century, fascism and communism. He argues (this is a political novel) that post-war Europe lives in an ideological dead-zone, where nostalgia sends your heart back to a faith your intellect no longer is able to embrace. Instead of tanks, send us a new revelation, a French official tells one of the American characters in the book. Hence the Age of Longing.

I think the only reason why some of us who left the SDA church years ago, from time to time look in you who remain, is an expression of just such a nostalgia. Adventism at one time was pure magic, and we can't quite let go of that moment.

Voltaire once wrote a (very) short story about a wanderer who came upon a very unhappy guru up in the mountains. In spite of a life-long commitment to truth-seeking, he was constantly moaning about how feeble a grasp he had of reality. Voltaire's traveler finally points out to him that down in the village below there must be many a simple washer woman who had never busied herself with the kind of quest that he was on, and who was happier than he. Yes, the sage said, I know, but that is not the kind of happiness I aspire to.

When you follow truth off the reservation (or eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, as Genesis puts it), it's not to seek happiness but to be true to your scientific designation, homo sapiens.

Cliff, I think it's great that you've been able to preserve the magic of that first discovery and yet be true to yourself. I just couldn't do it.

I clearly remember the first Sabbath School class I attended with my Father at Union Springs Academy a few weeks out of the Army from WWII. The teacher was an old farmer. He looked me directly in the eye and said: "The young people of today spend more time reading Life and Look Magizines than the SS quarterly. I poked my dad in the ribs and whispered: " I wonder if he has overcome or merely out grown!" Back in those days the book of the year was "Forever Amber" some fast reader in the tent would be assigned to read the book and dog ear every salacious page and then pass the book around the tent. I have yet to read the book, seen the movie or read the dog eared pages. But with an army uniform with a ruptured duck and three stripes and a rocker--I was bad big time.

I met a young girl at Union Springs a year later. We were married a year after that and have been happily married for 59 years this coming June 30, at 6:30 P.M. in the Seventh-day Adventist Church--white Bible, White Orchid and all. We have three grown children who are coming over tomorrow to review 59 years of slides. Now that is Love! P.S. The poor farmer died before Sports Illustrated came out with their swim suit edition. The God spares those weak in the faith. Tom

Implementing alternate SS formats wherever there is the need, and wherever there is the ability to do so is great. That it must be implemented through the choice and initiative of the local church is something with which I also agree.

My question is, why is there no move from the upper levels to at least suggest if not endorse, let alone produce materials, that would facilitate such variety? I acknowledge that the last option may be a practical impossibility; but, is a uniformity masquerading as unity the goal of our world organization? Is there a GC endorsement of alternate approaches and/or content of which I am not aware?

One other out of the box thought: How about the idea of doing away with SS altogther? I'm thinking in an evangelistic mode. To invite someone who is not yet an Adventist to sit for an hour or more of SS and an hour or more worship service is more and more difficult in our time pressed culture...especially when you consider that most North American Adventists commute some time and distance to church, creating even further barriers to bringing friends.

In fact, it is already difficult enough to get members to come out for SS. This is a problem that exsists in my home church, where the SS classes are very high quality; and I know that it is epidemic throughout North America.

Instead, how about focusing our energies in more of our churches on preparing high quality worship experiences on Sabbath that one would not be ashamed to invite friends to, and using the lesson themes as the basis for home cell group study during the week. Both experiences could be more outreach focused, and there could be as much flexibility in lesson approaches as there are active home groups.

With a built in diversification, maybe this would help create venues more conducive for the 'Teaching Company' format?

Thinking out loud...

Frank

Aage

That's heavy, and I appreciate your honesty. Yes, it was so incredible to me, first coming into this message: it was amazing. Overnight all the premises and first principles that I grew up with for 24 years just crumbled. I mean, almost my entire previous Weltanschauung just fell apart and I entered a whole new realm, one that was so full of hope, purpose, meaning. In those early days I was on fire.

The "magic," for lack of a better term, is still here, though differently. Funny but intellectually I'm rock solid on this message. In my thinking--this HAS to be The Truth (and I use the caps. on purpose). I mean, once you get rid of the Sabbath and the State of the dead, what options are left, if you want to stick with Jesus? As I've said before, I couldn't be anything else other than an SDA and still be honest with myself.

I joined the church in 1980 and have been at the GC since 83-84, so it's hard not to get somewhat institutionalized (though I'm still a bit of a wild-haired inconclast at the GC but they tolerate me because they know I'm loyal). YOu left, I guess, under the Ford thing, which was about the time I came in. Funny, but I owe Ford a lot--almost from the first day I joined the church I had to work my way through his stuff and come to my own conclusions. He forced me, early on, to get grounded in what I believed as an SDA from my Bible and my Bible only.

But, my question is about your search for truth, not for happiness. When I was about 21 I decided I wanted truth, no matter the cost, even if that cost were to make me unhappy. The search for truth isn't the same as the search for happiness. Blessed is he who finds happiness with truth, but happiness merely, to use an Aristotelean term, might be one of the "accidents" of truth but not necessarily an essence.

Have you found truth elsewhere, or are just convinced that it's not with the SDAs? That's really my question.

Years ago in one of my books God, Godel, and Grace I dedicdated it to "all whose desire for truth transcends the joy of seeking it." ARe you more caught up in the fun of looking for it than actually willing to find it, if that makes sense.

Anyway, its great hearing from you again. Though we first met at a tumultous time, and we were on opposite poles of things (I was brand new, totally green and, I admit, cluessless), I do remember you with fondness. YOu had a daughter, right? She must be an adult now, I imagine.

Jag kan inte skriva norska men Jag kan svenska (forlata mig!) Jag brukade bo in Stockholm

Cliff,
You asked: "Are you more caught up in the fun of looking for it [truth] than actually willing to find it, if that makes sense." Yes, the question makes sense. And the answer is that although I find great pleasure in pursuing truth, this would make no sense, even to me, if it were nothing but intellectual posturing.

After I left the church, I have read quite a bit in the field of biblical studies. Like Tom wrote a couple of days ago, I've wanted to know the truth about the beliefs I once held. Like you I believe that truth is knowable, and when I talk about following truth off the reservation, that it always expands beyond the creed, I'm talking about this in the perspective of time that's allocated to each one of us. There is an upper-case Truth that embraces all of reality. Parts of it we have uncovered, much of it we haven't. My issues with fundamentalism is its basically its lack of humility in the face of this reality.

And yes, my little daughter is now a beautiful, married woman of nearly 30. Tempus fugit.

Cliff wrote:

" I couldn't be anything else other than an SDA and still be honest with myself."

And there are those who, equally, could not be honest with themselves and remain a SDA. This works both ways, and we all should recognize that in the search for truth we do not always find the same pathway for ourselves. There are many roads to truth and each individual must follow it and walk alone in that search. When diligent study and an honest search reveals such disparate paths, we should acknowledge and respect that there will always be those who cannot agree with us. Ce' le vie.

T Joe Willey

The Teaching Company has been a companion to me also. But here is another twist on how to enjoy the lectures even more. Six of us meet every Friday morning, faithfully rain or shine, for a light breakfast and piddling discussions about life in general. (We’ve been doing this for years.) After breakfast we fire up the "flat screen" on the wall and insert a Teaching DVD. Each lecture is about a half hour long. One person holds the remote so if a hand goes up during the lecture, we stop the DVD when the urge is too great to wait until the end. Right now, we’re watching “The Origin of Life.” Around the table is a former taxi-cab driver, an ethicist, a physicist, a cancer physician with a PhD in physics, a neuroscientist and a family doctor. After the lecture we have an invigorating discussion of what we learned, what was good, questions, observations and what needed clarification. We used to buy a stimulating book and promise to read a chapter for discussions, but often someone got busy and didn’t read the chapter. Using the Teaching Company lectures is far superior and everyone looks forward to the next week and continuing to learn. But I wonder if an Adventist professor could be as free to discuss sensitive subjects found in the Teaching Company library. It is on the edges where we find the most challenge and firmest discussions and something to contemplate in quite moments just before falling asleep or waking in the morning.

Best wishes to continuing education ...

Hi Joe

Of course an Adventist professor would be happy to join your group if someone didn't bring along a tape recorder. Some stories are just toooooo good to keep. Who wants to be quoted
by some "good" brother? It happens you know!!! Even when the G.C. ground rules said no recordings they did their own candesitine "lap top" recording. I have heard the tape run out and flap in the wind until they could get the infernal machine turned off. Of course, that was way back in Neal's day. When there were gobblins behind every door. Tom (Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?)

TJoe

As one of the "fortunate six," I hereby thank you for making our Friday morning seminars so great. Moving from "Goodys" to your office was a big improvement, though I do miss the folk at the diner. See you Friday!

Tom

I have no problem anyone recording what I say at any time. I figure God hears everything anyway and who cares about the others.

Given a choice, I prefer everything to be recorded. That protects us all from being quoted out of context.

I am very strict with myself about not revealing confidences and so forth. But all of us should do that.

All this cloak-and-dagger stuff, whereby we say something in some groups and not in others, strikes me as both silly and stupid.

It is silly because such attempts at secrecy never work. It is stupid because to be caught saying one thing "off tape" and another "on tape" seriously destroys one's credibility and trustworthiness.

People can handle disagreement; they don't put up with duplicity and they shouldn't.

I think the kind of childish behavior about which are speaking has wrecked the careers of more SDA academics than what they said and wrote.

Trust is very hard to earn and very easy to destroy.

Sabbath School Revisions?

When I was a younster it was the case in many places, and today I think today it still is, that a congregation had many, many more Sabbath School members than Church members.

That was because the SS really was a place where, among other things, people were schooled in Christian views and values.

Also, SS was less formal and more interactive, making it easier for people to be "socialized" into the congregation's life.

Now the situation in some places things reversed: we have more Church members than active Sabbath School members. Not a good omen!

The format of most Sabbath school services includes singing, musical selections, mission story, and finally class time, limiting greatly the time available for class discussion which reverts to mere lecture.

In other churches, SS classes begin at 9:30 and dismiss an hour or more later for church service.
The class I attend could benefit from even more time as we are all reluctant to leave. In Loma Linda, there are SS classes that extend for several hours or more. With such dynamic subjects (not quarterly) the discussions are very educational and informative. Whether it would generate a return to longer classes everywhere is not known but would depend on the teacher and subject.