This Handysides fellow sounds like a regular Spectrum blogger when he says "Evangelism only lets them see what we want them to see. But witness, whether we like it or not, allows them to see who we truly are." I love it!!

"There have been times in the past when the only time the public saw us was when we were either asking for money or trying to convert them."

In India, where pastors are paid for each baptism, promotions and opportunities are based on number of baptisms, poor bribed to get baptized for these foul ends something has to happen to change to the ideals desired above.

In a community where we were once leaders and well known for education and healthcare all across India, we are now felt to be the cause of much heartache among the Christian for these activities.

The human instinct to selfishness is at the core. Christ must be the focus. Leadership by example is the key.

Wow--hear, hear. I appreciate your continued commitment to highlight what leaders are doing well (in addition to your commitment to speak truth to power even if controversial as well). This is most refreshing.

"In India, where pastors are paid for each baptism, promotions and opportunities are based on number of baptisms, poor bribed to get baptized for these foul ends something has to happen to change to the ideals desired above."

I'm quite familar with the program in the last 5-6 years. Been there 4 times in 3 diffrent general areas, built 2 churches and never have seen or heard that one before.

The poor have no need to be bribed to be baptized. They run out to you in the street and put your hand on their head and ask you to pray for them. The message of a non caste based religion holds great appeal to them.

Best not to generalize. Its not the case.

Thanks Alex for this piece.

I think it was Gandhi who said, the only thing wrong with Christianity--is Christians, or something to that effect.

Wouldn't it be interesting if instead of Revelation Speaks seminars with all the beasts in the colorful brochures, the SDA church had presented and was known for "Romans and Galatians Speaks" seminars. Imagine all the people.

Imagine how different the SDA church might have been if they had spent as much time on Romans 14 as they have on Revelation 14.

Imagine a people known for compassionate, inclusiveness, caring, and spiritual freedom and assurance in Christ, instead of apocalyptic ambiguity, and a "health message".

Imagine a people known for teaching Jesus, His life, and His Sacrifice, instead of Salvation by Sabbath keeping.

Maybe I'm a dreamer.....

President Paulsen has said some good things here. Hopefully its more than legacy building.

Randy

Apologies to JL

You may say that I'm a dreamer,
But I'm not the on the only one.
Someday you, you may join us...

The logo for the Markham Woods Church illustrating this post holds interesting ideas about new ways for Adventists to contribute to the environment. Tree planting, making gardens of the grounds of our churches, getting the Pathfinders involved in conservation efforts could all be new ways for Adventists to share their respect, compassion, and generosity right where they are. As they say, to bloom where they are planted.

The first and formost thing the Seventh-day Adventist church should do is to admit that it is a human institution and as such is subject to misunderstandings, misinterpretations, ego-centric pronouncements, and inordinate reliance on post-canonical writings. It should admit that its 28 Fundamental Beliefs should be muted and the Canon dominate. It should recommend rather than demand a seventh-day Sabbath and it should recommend rather than insist on tithe as a fulfillment of Christian Stewardship. It should exclude foot washing as part of the celebration of the Lord's Supper. It should emphasis out-reach in terms of education, health care, and redemption through the Blood of Christ plus nothing.

Such a witness would be overwhelming to the most hardened sceptic. Tom

Tom, as I read it, the article had more to do with the attraction of practical Christian living rather than with the validity of specific doctrines.
Mind you, I get the "redemption through the Blood of Christ plus nothing" already, right here, in the SDA church.

The question is, does that redemption find a visible reflection in my life (possibly even my face)?

Stefan

Many have found salvation within Adventism due to the Grace of God. Many others have found only dispair and hopeless in reaching any definition of perfection.

The primary thing the Seventh-day Adventist Church should do is to make it absolutely clear that it does not have either a claim or a lock on Salvational Truth.

It should encourage a fellowship on the basis of a common need and a common hope. Tom

Tom,
I hear you. I have seen both. And I despise the latter.

I also agree that fellowship ought to be encouraged, based on need and hope. (not talking about membership)

The Seventh-day Adventist church has had its fair share of being guilty of isolationism which is counterproductive to "fellowship". And the desire for fellowship should be expressed in ways touched on by Jan Paulsen.

As for "truth" and locks and claims, that would be another thread I suppose :-)

Stefan

Thanks for your response. I am not quite sure what about the latter you despise--the fact some found only dispair and hopelessness or the emphasis on perfection.

In another thread someone wrote about innumberable suicides.
I started counting and came up with five. I now can recall nine. Four within walking distance of Andrews, One within walking distance of Loma Linda Campus, One within a five minutes drive of Collegedale, One within a five minutes drive to the South Carolina Academy. The others in clinical depression, I can not number. There must be something better than a check list theology. I rejoice in the writings of Graham Maxwell. His recent manuscript: How God Won His Case is evangelical and soul saving--That is the way to read Daniel and Revelation--Not "there's a man going round taking names." Tom

Thanks Alex for this piece. I liked it a lot. The words of Dr. Paulsen are very true. After reading these words of Pualsen:
"I want Adventists to be known as honest people who teach and practice morality, people with the highest ethical standards, people who speak out against greed and against the self-serving attitudes that do so much damage to society," I have to say that it would be good to start with the Adventist administration and then ask the members to follow the highest ethical standards.

Let me make my point clearer. I share Paulsen's vision for our community, but we all that at an administration level, there are many immoral actions-this is not about sex- being commited (which go against Paulsen's words) that are not being addressed.

If we want our church to be known as honest, we should try to decrease the number of immoral actions or attitudes committed and promoted by our church administrators. In order to do that, we may need as a church the freedom that Pualsen asks to defend, the freedom to investigate this immoral issues and publish them, so everyone can know.

What would happen if I wrote a story with proven facts, good sources, even with "deep throats" about an inmoral action ocurred in the church administration which has not been addressed? Could I publish it in www.adventist.org? and in Spectrum? Where then?

If we want an honest church, if we want freedom, if we want all these good things Paulsen desires, we should start with transparency. The ball now, is back onto Paulsen's roof.

"I'm quite familar with the program in the last 5-6 years. Been there 4 times in 3 diffrent general areas, built 2 churches and never have seen or heard that one before."

You have seen what was shown and not is reality.

I hear you Ruben. Freedom of expression is nice, but even better would be freedom of participation in decisions and the requisite information sharing that goes along with that.

Elder Paulsen's call to avoid self-serving also means that we might have to limit the "service" of some of our perpetual leaders. One only has to look at the serious culture of corruption in the Lake Region Conference, or Costa Rica to recognize that rubber-stamping constituency meetings does not provide a very good example of trust or participation - a poor witness to anyone watching, either in or outside our church.

Is it really better to have a local paper, or Spectrum cover a mess? Frankly, I'd rather focus on creative, positive rearticulations of Adventism in a changing world.

I do believe we should praise when praise is worthy, criticise when necessary but support always. This call for freedom fighters rightly earns our leadership praise.
Thank you!

"I'm quite familar with the program in the last 5-6 years. Been there 4 times in 3 diffrent general areas, built 2 churches and never have seen or heard that one before."

You have seen what was shown and not is reality."

Sona, Please do tell!
What is your experience. Where did you see this? Have you been there?
Or do you have, as they say, an axe to grind with only hearsay to form your conclusions?

Tom
Sorry about the slight confusion. I despise the emphasis on sinless perfection. It is quite often espoused by bitter, joyless people, who are far from the ideal they wish to force onto the rest of the world.

Biblical perfection has more to do with the idea of maturity, or being mercyful. That's what I get out of the parallel passages of Matthew and Luke on that topic (be perfect/mercyful as your Father in heaven....)

And the circle is closing. Mercy is best demonstrated in practical living. Didn't the GC prez talk about something like that? :-)

What I'm interested in exploring is how freedom of expression increases the buy-in of church members. . .and even potential members, from the unchurched to "Adventists who are born that way."

Elder Paulsen's emphasis on ethics means that we might be moving away from some of the old doctrinal fights and into a new era of creativity in converting truth into a habit for action.