There is nothing to add. You have fully described the sentiments that students, or anyone experiences when they are coerced to worship. Worship must be fully given from the heart, just as love. Imagine a determined effort to force people to love a dictator. This is what can result from mandated "worship." It becomes repugnant to a truly spiritual person.

How can someone love a God who demands worship?

I absolutely concur that

"Mere attendance at worship services does not translate into authentic worship experience," however it doesn't always prevent it either!

Which is why I disagree that,

"Mandatory attendance negates the genuine need for worship to be inspired and instead dictates that attendance leads to worship. Worship for the sake of fulfilling God’s need and not the requirement of institutions for the sake of evading punishment is more powerful, more fulfilling, and more Christian than the current structure."

It may do this at times but not always. I have seen with my own eyes students that complained regularly about being required to go to worship and seeking to get out of the "requirement" come forward with tears in their eyes, standing and singing their hearts out, or just glowing because they experienced something at this place that they were "required" and "did not" want to be at!
I think we sometimes lose sight of the power of God's Word! When Jesus Christ is lifted up He draws people to Himself, even in cases where people are required or do not want to be there. I can say this from personal experience when as an 18 year old I went to a vespers because I was sick of my buddy bugging me about it and I told him I would come to support him; there was not a single part of me that wanted to be there or wanted to worship; I hated most those kids! But something happened and my life was changed because Jesus Christ through the Word of God has a way of entering our hearts, and He entered mine that night.
I have said this on here before and I will say it again: It is a narrow perspective to insist that schools are mandating worship, they are not mandating worship, they are mandating attendance at a school function that supports the principles of the school...once you are there all you have to do is be respectful, no one takes away your attendance card if you don't stand or sing during songs, respond to an altar call, etc.. Worship is never mandated! If it happens because the word of God is more powerful than someone's negative attitude of a school's policy then praise the Lord.
Y'all can keep complaining about mandatory attendance at events where worship is happening. I will rejoice in the power of the Word of God to change lives!

This is a deja vous moment for me. Back, several decades now, I wrote a similar article in the college paper, upset at what I was experiencing with required worship. My beef was with dorm "worship". Coming from a public school system, I thought I had gone through the pearly gates when I entered a SDA college. No more worries about the Sabbath when it came to school functions and we even had "worship". It wasn't long, however, that I found these coerced worships really annoying, at first, and then, very upsetting.

I recall one warm, spring evening, I had gone for a walk around the campus, which took me to a hill, overlooking the college town below. I was immersed in the headiness of the moment and was having my own, private worship on the hill. Suddenly I realized it was time to go to "worship" at the dorm, and I already had a few skips. If I skipped any more, I would have to pay a fine. I remember throwing "caution to the winds" and decided not to go; and yes, I was fined for not attending. The irony was that dorm worships were anything but... . They all started off with a song and a prayer but quickly progressed to finger wagging about the messy laundry room and other dorm issues. I didn't debate long as to whether or not I should tare myself off the hill and save a buck.

That said, other memories crowd in as well - much more pleasant. Friday night vespers were a little bit of heaven, coming from a secular school system. Ultimately, worship happens whenever and where ever you open yourself up to the experience; but I found the whole business about fines and people standing around with clipboards checking off names at worship was not conducive to the intended outcome - which was to provide a spiritual experience in the life of the campus, I presume.

I agree with the inroduction also. Mandating worship or for Chad's sake attendance to a place or worship is something which really shows an inclination to control people and try to force as far as possible or as far as legally acceptable ones own views.

It limits God in that we need to mandate bringing people to a place of SDA worship for God to use His power. God surely can use it anywhere.

Bringing examples of people who have been overwhelmed and are crying at a place of attendance; perhaps they are crying because they don't want to be there.

In any event, this argument ignores the people who are put-off worshiping when they are not mandated to do so and in fact may be great witnesses against the church in future.

It shows a lack of confidence in the ability of the Church to market themselves through example and therefore have a "pull" strategy for bringing people into the Church; as they would need to do when they get into the "real world".

Now Chad, your surname being a Catholic Stuart rather than a protestant Stewart; you should be acutely aware of the similarities between the poicy of an SDA institution mandating worship and the so called end of time events and the Sunday Law. What is the difference?

Sometimes a religion aims for strict observance with a form of godliness. Mandatory worship is a good preparation for a long lifetime of strictly observing the forms:

http://adventistsnotcult.blogspot.com/2008/08/coming-into-kingdom.html

Really all that needs to be done is change the name. There is a long history of giving things names and then believing it. We call a building the Church and then hallow it, forgetting all about the Body of Christ. We then say we go to Church to "worship" God. We have in the "church service" a "Call to Worship". We say we "Come into the Presence of God" in this building. We order men to take their hats off when they come into “God's House". We even go so far as to call the meeting hall a Sanctuary.

It is not a bad thing to label and order things. Inevitably, though, we forget who did the organizing and we begin to worship the labels. Maybe that is what we end up with. The idiolatry of worshiping the labels.

Oh, and don't forget, EGW said something about how Angeles turn their heads in shame when someone scuffs their feet in the isles of God's House (or some such idea).

I was woken up at 6am at an adventist university to physically attend daily devotion. Usually, I was mentally recoiling from writing papers or studying too close to the wake up call to know what was being fed to me.

There's a difference between mandatory worship that is stiff as the walls they sit in, and meaningful worhip that is participated by worshippers. When you can progress to the latter, only then you can mandate worship in a college setting.

Pray Until Something Happens-that's what they told me in worship and it worked. I survived it!

Andrews,
Yes, my ancestry is Catholic, Mary Queen of Scots! You asked about the difference between the Sunday Law and SDA institutions mandating "worship." Here is how I see the difference, to attend an SDA school is a choice, when a student goes to a school they or their parents make a choice; part of that choice includes recognizing that the school has mandatory attendance credits and worship events. When someone mandates that I attend church on Sunday that will not have anything to do with any choice that I have made. You may say, "a student has no choice, their parents sent them there," if the student is 18 they have a choice; they may not like their other options, but they have a choice. Also, there are other SDA schools in which attendance at such events is not required; I find it amusing that I have met students from these schools who have transferred to say a school like Southern and then complain about the attendance requirements. These are not young adults forced to be there by their parents they made the conscious decision to leave a school that was more relaxed in those areas and come to school that has the reputation for being more strict in these areas. If it is a deal breaker they should attend another school. I am proud of the fact that all our schools appeal to different types of students and we provide options to our young people.
To address something else you said, I hope there was sarcasm in the comment about students crying because they didn't want to be there. I accept your premise that I ignored the students that are put off by mandated "worship." Although my point in fact did not ignore them, since my very point was not so much about who this did or didn't put off, but that the Word of God is able to penetrate the most calloused of hearts...including those who are "turned off."
I would agree with Dr. Larsen though that the language we use at our schools does cause problems. I don't hear people express their difficulties with "convocation" credit nearly as much as they do "worship" credit. Even though at many convocations there are still hymns being sung and religious speakers. So maybe we could change the option from "worship credit" to "student fellowship credit?"
On another note I want to apologize to Raymond, I reread my post that I wrote last night, and I realized my last statement sounded smug, and was inconsiderate to Raymond's spirituality! Although Raymond and I disagree on the Mandated "worship" issue, I don't think this limits his celebration of the power of the Word of God. So please forgive me Raymond.
Blessings,
Chad

As someone raised through high school in the Catholic parochial school system, this all has an eerily familiar sound! Except, I never remember anyone at the door taking attendance...we were simply brought en masse to religious exercises...there was no choice, and there was no authentic spirituality.

It would be an easy out for Adventists to blame this lack of authentic spirituality on the Catholic belief system. That would be the traditional, trite conclusion.

But, to me, this has little to do with the belief system; it has more to do with enforced participation in any belief system that is the problem, even for those who have chosen to attend an institution with such affiliation. To say that genuine religious or spiritual experiences have resulted from such policy, is to say that the end justifies the means, no matter how good and true the end may be.

The whole idea of mandatory worship, or mandatory attendance at worship exercises (with fines imposed after missing a pre-determined amount), somehow sounds oxymoronic by nature, to put it mildly. Worship, by nature as stated above, must be freely given. Attendance must be by invitation not compulsion. That is why we speak of the gospel invitation, not the gospel rules of enforcement.

In addition, if we, as a church, believe in the biblical basis of religious liberty, shouldn't we be modeling this in our institutions of higher education? Why is it good for the goose but not for the gander? Why do we see the need for liberty to be practiced in the wider world but not amongst our own?

We are not dealing with 12-17 year olds here. Looking back,I can understand my high school experience...I was not at the legal age of consent when I was mandated to attend Mass in Catholic schools. I was not yet ultimately responcible for my own life.

This, however is an entirely different set of circumstances. We are talking about young adults who are beyond this age, who are embarking on taking full responcibility for their own lives as adults, and who should be trusted with exercising their freedom of choice in such matters. A freedom that, in matters of the heart, we as Adventists say that we value, and that God values above all else.

This exercise of freedom is part and parcel of learning to function as a healthy adult, and as a responcible moral agent before God. Anything that impinges upon this freedom, even in the name of worship, or of inculcating biblical spiritual values, would seem to be stunting this God-ordained growth process.

Persuasion, attraction, and invitation, yes! Enforcement, no! I believe, our institutions would be more in line with standing for and transmitting our own belief system if this were the policy.

Frank

A few reflections (from the pastor of the PUC Church, who is not part of the college policy-making, and who also has a kid in college.):

1. The nomenclature is a problem.
As someone stated above, one solution would be to change the name of the event from "worship" to something else. Most of the experiences of the buffet of options at our college aren't really "worship" services anyway. The majority are small groups. I believe a student can also fulfill some of the requirement for religious exposure by doing service in the community with Student Association projects.

2. It's not all cattle call.
Some of our older participants on the forum might have a vision of the old lockstep days where everyone had to go to the same large meetings: File in, take a seat, sing a hymn, pray standing up, listen to a talking head moralize, file out. There are very few of those kinds of required worships. I think a student could fulfill worship credit without ever doing that here. Yet the Friday night "vespers" (another poorly named event) remains the most popular option for social reasons.

3. Think intimacy
Tuesday night I went to an option called Lift. I did not want to leave my home during the Warrior-Jazz game on a rainy night, but a student asked me to come observe. 12 students were attending. Dark room. Quiet guitar music. Scriptures on the screen (in this case John 8), with 4 or 5 quiet songs woven in. It was beautiful, inspiring, challenging. I was motivated to talk to God. I was so glad I came. I was just fulfilling an expectation, so I hadn't expected to be touched. But what do you know?!
Last night I went to the church about 8. The light was on in one of the classrooms, and three guys--only three--were meeting as a small group. It is not difficult to get your small group listed as an option here.

4. Get real about our own motivations to attend worship--not just college student motivations--and get real about how our lives are often enhanced when we actually show up for services or small groups.
Though it's my job I rarely _want_ to go to church on Sabbath morning. I would rather stay in my jammies, sip some coffee, listen to music and read. But once I get there I almost always experience serendipity (and certainly not because I'm preaching!). Some people go to worship for their kids, some because they have a church office that requires it, or because their job at the college makes them feel like they ought to be a good example. Add habit, loneliness, guilt, boredom and occasionally devotion.
Most of us like to think we live by internal, intrinsically-motivated discipline. It just ain't true in spiritual life or any other part of our lives. And it need not kill a college student, in formative years, to have some parameters that insure that somewhere along they line they are exposed to groups, varieties of styles and ideas, etc. Hopefully there are a few creative moments when they are touched. That's the dream.

Rules sometimes help me do what deep down I really want to do but let other things get in the way. That's why I believe in required chapels, unless the music is too loud! But haven't we already discussed that?
Dave

Chad:

Having had the opportunity to meet and speak with you at our Forum, I knew that any conclusions that I come to from mere words posted in a blog that might offend would be rash conclusions--which is to write, I do not find you to be one who would openly offend; you're educated and can make a point without intentionally being offensive.

Although, I would like to address some comments you made. You wrote that, "It is a narrow perspective to insist that schools are mandating worship, they are not mandating worship, they are mandating attendance at a school function that supports the principles of the school...once you are there all you have to do is be respectful, no one takes away your attendance card if you don't stand or sing during songs, respond to an altar call, etc.. Worship is never mandated!"

I would not have a problem with attendance mandated at school functions such as convocations--there is a strong argument that students should attend convocation programs (and at Southern we have fourteen attendance requirements) that bring the university community together. I do, however, have a strong objection to having individuals who object to the very idea of worship or who do not want to worship being mandated to attend a worship service.

The policy that I would advocate would be to plan the service and let those who want to come, come. Let God inspire us to worship Him and let those of us who feel a need to worship God do so of our own accord. I submit that the level of worship would be more heartfelt, more genuine, and more uplifting than what the current system produces. With the policies of Southern--albeit well-intentioned--there are students who talk during the song service, who ignore the speaker, text on their phones, bring PDAs, work on homework assignments, etc. Should these students find these activities more important that worshiping the Creator of the Universe, that is there decision and I would better like it that they not attend a worship service should they not want to be there.

Southern wants students to participate in worshiping--otherwise the attendance requirement would not be a policy. To state the it is ". . . narrow to insist that schools are mandating worship" is an argument from semantics and diverts the issue. The policy wants students to worship while they are present; the sought after goal cannot be singularly for attendance (that would be a purely secular notion and Southern is a religious institution). Southern therefore must want worship from their students while attending these worship services or such an attendance policy seems not only unnecessary, but spiritually offensive.

I've participated in personal Bible studies, group worship services, and study groups with more excitement to worship God than some vespers or dorm worship services. Students have a need to worship God. As a Christian--I need to worship He that gives me strength to brave the stormy weather of this life. We need not worry about our university policies reinforcing the importance of worship through attendance, our faith and community in the Body of Christ alone sustains that need. Let us have our belief in the awesome power of God to inspire and transform hearts be reflected in our policies as institutions.

I understand the need for guidelines, rules and principles in all areas of life. However, as Adventists, the one area in which we always resist this in the larger world arena , is in the area of worship. Worship is always to be a free choice (to engage or not to engage) made by a responsible person, not by top down compulsion, threat or force.

Why can we stand for this in our engagement with the culture, but not within our own academic institutions? Does mandatory requirement and penalty if one does not comply send the right message about the very nature of worship to those being taught to hopefully choose it for themselves? Does this stand more in line with and transmit our fundamental belief of freedom better than a model that would involve friendly persuasion, invitation and attraction?

Would the latter model not encourage the idea of friendship evangelism within our "own ranks?"... those who have truly tasted Christ reaching out to dormmates and classmates who haven't, freely inviting them to taste for themselves? Isn't this more in keeping with the gospel commission itself? Disciple making happening student to student, not enforced from above.

I'm not saying that these types of contacts do not already happen. I just don't understand or agree with the reason for the component of top down compulsion and penalty on a university level. The reasons do not seem strong enough to me in light of our core values and beliefs.

Frank

Hi Chad

You see the problem with your answer is that it did not answer the question. The question is about the corporate mandating of worship, which would be the same should so called Sunday Law come into force.

You seek to shift responsibility for this policy to those who had no involvement in its inception.

As with the more recent comments, the point is that if there is something worthwhile attending, then it does not need mandating, people will attend.

You may want to check out Pitcairn Island to see how SDA corporate mandating affects a whole population where no choice exists, except to change one's nationality!

Why do they require class attendance? Shouldn't they not take roll? If it's worth attending the lecture people will attend. What makes worship any less an important part of the curriculum than any other part of a liberal arts education?

Communal worship is an integral part of Adventist education offered by our universities. The arguments above obviously see worship as a voluntary part of the curriculum. Or, why is anything in college mandatory?

It seems to me that one is required to conflate ones personal relationship with Christ (or perhaps spirituality even) with worship gatherings in order for the argument I see expressed above to make any sense.

Of course Adventist education doesn't require that you have a personal relationship with Christ or attend church on Sabbath. Adventist education does not seek to force or coerce personal commitment by students to the denomination or Christ. It does however view these weekly gatherings as important to your development, and curriculum, as your classes in biology or literature.

There are places that don't require worship attendance and students are fully able to enroll there if mandatory worship offends them. Adventist universities require that incoming students sign student life contracts. There was no compulsion there either. It is a fully free association the student is making with the campus.

The point is that it makes as much sense to argue against being required to attend your course lectures as it does chapels. Why? Because yes, we as Christians believe that worship is as much a part of your educational experience as the classes themselves and our colleges and universities express their commitment by giving worship as much importance as your major itself.

But I feel the need to echo Dave by saying that a lot of this was hashed out on his quite recent post on Spectrum's website which you can read here. I do appreciate new light being set on the question but I don't see anything new in these arguments that we haven't just gone through a week or two ago. I would love to be corrected.

I've come to see from these posts, pro and con, that the best that can be hoped for is an imperfect policy in an imperfect situation.

I guess my last thoughts would be that the gospel and worship by their very nature cannot be equated with academic subjects or requirements. Liberty of consciense is not a key component of participating in English Lit. or physics classes to recieve a degree. It always is a key component of true worship. Take this away, and you have a cheap parody of worship.

Yes, Christian/Adventist schools can and must set their own standards. Yes, students know the requirements going in. Yes, the development of true spirituality is as important or even more important than any other component of a wholistic education.

But the very idea of enforced requirement and worship, as I said before, seem oxymoronic. Concerning the desired end, it would be interesting to see how much true spiritual fruit such policy produces as opposed to how much resentment it breeds, and how much turn off from religion it engenders among students and former students.

Frank

Johnny,

Sorry for one last, last thought.

You said:

"...one is required to conflate one's personal relationship with Christ(or perhaps spirituality even)with worship gatherings in order for the argument I see expressed above to make any sense."

My question is, how does any act of Christian worship in any venue, on any of the seven days, even remotely make sense without a relationship or the desire of a relationship, or sense of need of Christ.

Without this the heart of real worship has been cut right out.

Frank

I really enjoyed reading the comment by Pr. Mitchell. He said-

Most of us like to think we live by internal, intrinsically-motivated discipline. It just ain't true in spiritual life or any other part of our lives. And it need not kill a college student, in formative years, to have some parameters that insure that somewhere along they line they are exposed to groups, varieties of styles and ideas, etc. Hopefully there are a few creative moments when they are touched. That's the dream.

Also his notes on small groups etc. parallel what is available at LSU and other schools. The required worship structure is very flexible and full of options for most schools. The key being to say that structures need constant revision and improvement and deficiencies justify renewal not abandonment.

To answer your question I would say that if someone has no desire for worship and isn't remotely interested in Christ _and_ they find the atmosphere of a Christian school offensive to them then maybe the time isn't right for them to be in school. They can transfer somewhere else. There isn't anything wrong with taking time off from school or spending time finding yourself.

From the On-line "About Us"

Thought eveyone should know the Official take on Campus Worship. There are more than 3000 accredited liberal arts colleges of which more than 2000 don't "require" "worship"--why argue with those few which do? Particularly since application is voluntary! Should the issue be: Are the worship services well structured in keeping with the Mssion Statement of the institution? I think God is open 24/7 for worship. So scheduling shouldn't be a problem for a Christian if the content and presentations are worshipful. Spontaneity has its pit-falls as well. "Making a joyful noise may be a release but hardly edifying. See Below: Tom

Welcome to Southern Adventist University!

People tell me that Southern is a special place. Visitors say they can tell the difference immediately, within a few hours of stepping foot on campus. We have a welcoming and distinctly spiritual environment.

Our students create this special environment. While they are expected to attend weekly convocations, Friday night vespers, and residence hall worships, many of our students go a step further. They connect in spontaneous groups for prayer and Bible study, lead out in ministry and community service events, and participate in record numbers as student missionaries and task force workers. As an administrator, I’m blessed each time a student comes to my office to pray with me and for me.

Another difference that’s important at Southern is that our professors enjoy being able to personally assist students. We have small class sizes and our professors advise and mentor students and build relationships, both in and out of the classroom.

That’s why we use the tagline “Power for Mind and Soul.” There’s power here to connect to a Higher Power; power to prepare for a life career; and power to mingle with students and professors who share a welcoming Christian faith.

I encourage you to come visit our campus and experience what’s special and different at Southern for yourself.

In Christ,

Gordon Bietz
President

(

Tom,
Thanks for that letter from Gordon Bietz. I like his encapsulation of SAU's mission and have a hard time imagining any chaplain or professor at any of our schools being anything less than open with students with their time and consideration.

Actually my experience in the three SDA colleges I passed through on my way to my B.S. has Greg King (then at PUC) standing out as the one teacher who was most pro-active in seeking me out and encouraging me personally when I was vulnerable. So when I think of people at Southern, I think of him and his kindness. While that may have little to do with Southern's worship situation it did come to mind immediately when I read the paragraph on professors which I can say is definitely true of my experience with one member of their theological faculty.

While allowing for the likelihood that like all human efforts, our shared diversity and other factors, every single student may not find Bietz's note as accurately descriptive of their own experience, statements like this do go a long way in setting the tone for the campus.

Thanks Johnny

I can name professors at E.M.C., A.U.C. and LLU. that I feel the same way as you recall your days in SDA;s schools. I can also recall professors at the University of Ill, Northwestern, and Marquette that had the same emphathy for students. There are others I can match from all of the above who would make Jezebel look like a saint. Just the same, I thank God for carrying me through war and peace to a career of public service and increasing faith in a God of redemptive love. I belong to a band of souls awaiting His soon return. Tom

Ever since this thread was introduced, I have been puzzled by the opening sentence. "Genuine worshiping experience must be initiated by God." Was that to "cover" the Fourth Commandmen? What is the relationship between rest and worshp?
When did God indicate worship was not welcome? "Come let us worship and bow down?" Isn't that an open invitation. Who among us would venture to state that Seventh-day Adventist Southern University was not ordianed of God? The fact that it falls short of the mark--is common to mankind. Name one human institution that rates 100% in divine intent.

I can recall many a chapel, vestpers, even Church Services were just chaff. My lunch yesterday was the poorest I've eaten at that restaurant in the 17 years I have been eating there.

I don't think I will return very soon. But I will return and most likely order something else from the menu.

The argument against scheduled worship misses the mark as much as an argument against sechedled meals. The issue is the menu and possibly the chef need to be changed.

As I type, I can look up to my right and read the titles of
several dogeared books: God's New Society--Stott; Christ, the Controverselist--Stott; The Man, Who is God--Heppenstall, Matin Luther---Dillenberger; The Gifts of the Jews--Thomas Cahill, Grace Unknown--R.C. Sproul, The King James Bible from 1939 baptism through WWII; to present. The Revised Standard, Philip's and a few more. But my best worship source is the Seventh-day Adventist Hymnal. I can neither play nor sing but I can read and whisper Amen.

If private worship is so fulfilling, why not share it on a regular basis with men and women of life faith? Tom

As an attendee at the notorious Southern Adventist University, I can honestly say that required worships (specifically vespers) have brought forth little goodness or truth. I am forced to attend events that promote ideas which I am totally against(saved by works, God is punishing us for our sins, et cetera) and aren't spiritually uplifting in the least. Here is the typical vespers: walk into a dark, loud sanctuary; listen to the worship leader and his entourage bask in the glory of their stage presence; finally, have a message which contradicts your beliefs forced upon you and your peers. Honestly, I would love attending vespers if they were good quality. Regardless though, required worships violate the basis of our existence here on earth, the law of liberty. For that reason, it is a not Christlike in the least. In fact, it fuels Satan's lie that God is an arbitrary tyrant.

The question of whether it's technically mandated or not is secondary.This issue speaks to the spiritual bankruptcy of many of our educational institutions. The argument is that if it were not required no body would show up. Shouldn't that reality shake us to our core?
Shouldn't we be concerned that we are directly opposing the mandate of Adventist education "to create thinkers and not mere reflectors of other men's thoughts"?